- UPDATE: February 28, 2015
To be Absolutely Clear. Of course I recognize that
"Alienation" exists.
But, do consider these thoughts:"Alienation" exists.
- First the Child Protective AGENCY has a big enough shopping list, sorta speak, of what is deemed "Child Abuse" (Getting it wrong too many times, by removing children with little evidence)
- Second to merely say "Parent" Alienation" is a bit short sighted. Their may be others within the Family that may be responsible for "Alienation". So, I prefer the phrase "Family" Alienation.
- Third, I am a strong believer that the Parents brought a Precious child into the world and they should be responsible, No matter what their location.
- HOWEVER, one is asking our Government, Courts, etc. to solve said concern...
- BUT, the turn around and say there is too much Government, Courts, etc. Control.
THINK ABOUT IT??
(Key Phrase "parens patriae">> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parens_patriae) Original Post: July 1, 2012
Please note in our discussion group over the years with one common goal in mind “Defending Ourselves against False Allegations.” Although this article eludes to Parent Alienation, here is one thought we all may want to consider: “We do not OWN Our Children. We as adults are merely here to Guide them through Sharing, Caring, and Guidance, with the hopes, that they too will become Responsible Adults. Noting, of course, Responsibility is not necessarily a Democratic Process?”
- So here is the article by the judge:
Minnesota Judge Has 200 Blunt Words
for Divorcing Parents
for Divorcing Parents
By Judge Michael Haas
2001
2001
“Your children have come into this world because of the two
of you. Perhaps you two made lousy choices as to whom you decided to be the
other parent. If so, that is your problem and your fault.
No matter what you think of the other party—or what your family thinks of the other party—these children are one-half of each of your. Remember that, because every time you tell your child what an “idiot” his father is, or what a “fool” his mother is, or how bad the absent parent is, or what terrible things that person has done, you are telling the child half of him is bad.
That is an unforgivable thing to do to a child. That is not love. That is possession. If you do that to your children, you will destroy them as surely as if you had cut them into pieces, because that is what you are doing to their emotions.
I sincerely hope that you do not do that to your children. Think more about your children and less about yourselves, and make yours a selfless kind of love, not foolish or selfish, or your children will suffer.”
No matter what you think of the other party—or what your family thinks of the other party—these children are one-half of each of your. Remember that, because every time you tell your child what an “idiot” his father is, or what a “fool” his mother is, or how bad the absent parent is, or what terrible things that person has done, you are telling the child half of him is bad.
That is an unforgivable thing to do to a child. That is not love. That is possession. If you do that to your children, you will destroy them as surely as if you had cut them into pieces, because that is what you are doing to their emotions.
I sincerely hope that you do not do that to your children. Think more about your children and less about yourselves, and make yours a selfless kind of love, not foolish or selfish, or your children will suffer.”
Original Article
The
following advice from retired Minnesota
Judge has been circulating for years
among judges, attorneys and child
advocates as powerful words of advice
for all parents going through a
divorce. We hope you'll take the
time to read them!
Judge
Michael Haas retired in December 2002
after 26 years of service as a Judge in
Cass County, Minnesota. In a
letter written to advice columnist
Abigail Van Buren as early as October
1994 by attorney Paul J. Kiltinen of
Baxter, Minnesota, Mr. Kiltinen shared
the following remarks by Judge Hass in a
particularly difficult divorce case,
describing the Judge's remarks as
"some of the most profound words of
wisdom I've ever heard from the bench in
all my years as an attorney. His
philosophy could provide insight to all
parents, especially those who are
involved in difficult
dissolutions."
Judge Haas' concise advice in less than 200 words is so well known and so widely respected that it has been referenced in multiple appellate court decisions, including Burke v. Burke, Tennessee Court of Appeals, No. M2000-01111-COA-R3-CV, Aug. 7, 2001 and Krupp v. Cunningham-Grogan, Tennessee Court of Appeals, No. M2005-01098-COA-R3-CV, August 29, 2006.
It's
also been cited in Lawyers Weekly USA
No. 9921543 and in Don R. Ash's law
review article, Bridge Over Troubled
Water: Changing the Custody Law in
Tennessee, 27 U. Mem. L. Rev. 769,
771-72 (1997).
This
message was "resurrected" in 2000
when it was republished as a letter
published by advice columnist Ann
Landers (the twin sister of "Dear
Abby").
More
than 15 years after the fact, Judge Haas'
moving words are sprinkled all over the
Internet, found on court websites, blogs,
attorney webpages, in court decisions
and in law journals.
We
don't know if Judge Haas was speaking
extemporaneously on the record or if
these 197 words above were purely
"off the cuff".
Regardless, this message will always remain
profound and powerful advice when
parents are ready to engage in custody battles for
their children.
I really agree with this too many parents are immature and only think of themselves NO CHILD EVER ASKED TO BE BORN and if parents can't put their petty problems and jealousy aside neither parents deserve these kids, but they sure love to abuse and use that Parental Alienation when both parents are the ones doing the alienating.
ReplyDeleteAlthough many psychologists want to recognize Parent Alienation as an illness, thank goodness there are still many judges, who are of the same opinion as the one who wrote this article.
DeletePure and simple we are responsible for our own actions, and need not blame others for our conflicts.
Having raised 5 of my own through their teenage years. And now as grandpa with my youngest daughter and her 3, now teenagers.. I can say raising children to adults isn't an easy task, but vital.
There are many people in this country that bash their ex-spouses to the point that they humiliate them in public and even condemn these individuals not realizing that with child abuse the parent may have been abused themselves but some think it's okay to bash these parents.
DeleteMy grandmother was abandoned by her father when her mother died, when he remarried (and the step mother)ONLY wanted boys in the family but fortunately she was adopted by a loving person. My grandmother came out fine and this was long before many people wanted to use and abuse parental alienation when it is actually abandonment.
I can't stand the fact that when an ex-spouse always want to blame the other parent for the reason they can't see their child or children and they go in public to expose these spouses as low lifes or cruel people, yet they forget that if you go in public and humiliate these spouses it's your fault for that abandonment/parental alienation effect.
Tell what good does it do your child if you expose the spouse you don't like anymore only to lose respect your child had for you. Children need a stable environment not two parents acting like children who can't put aside their differences for their children, every divorced parent should speak kindly of the other and step parents should stay the H*** out of it, I have seen more step-parents bash the ex spouse and will NOT accept that the step-parent can be the very reason for one of the biological parents losing custody of the children.
Biological parents are the ONLY ones who have the right to raise the kids and step parents need to know their place and stay out of it. I am sorry but I have seen this one woman bash her husbands ex wife calling her a stalker making every one believe that the biological mother is a monster and not worth it to have full custody of the children and the step mom is harassing this ex-wife in public and it's the step mom who is preventing her husband from seeing his kids but she refuses to see this.
Instead she complains about the court and saying how unfair it is but the full blame goes entirely on the step mom for abusing the parental alienation excuse when there is NO need for it. NO parent should ever allow their problems to be known by a child, the adults should speak kindly of or just stay quiet otherwise that adult doesn't give a D*** about the child. Let the child decide if they like their parents based on how the parent treat the child is the best thing for all.
Although I was abused , mentally, verbally, physically I am so grateful to have experienced this because it brought me closer to God and I can NOT condemn my mother for this abuse when she too was abused by her family, it's wrong to condemn her, please keep this in mind. Thank You!!
Thanks for sharing, it is most appreciated. Currently, being a granpa in a multigeneration family, I most agree, that if possible the children should be with their natural parents.
DeleteAs far as taking issues to court, if there are any conflicts within the family, such as the step mom, you mentioned. Most of the time the courts will usually intensify the conflicts instead of solving them. As a family advocate, I recommend that those in conflict settle their differences, before they even go to court. And if they must, the Truth must be of importance, and not false knowledge of another.
We can not change our past, but only use those experiences of our past to make a better day..Today.
Keep care and never give up for the betterment of your family.
To anonymous, July 6:
DeleteI raised two wonderful boys as a stepfather. I always reinforced that their father was their father. At 32 my oldest boy tells me he knows he has a father, but I am his dad and that everything he knows about being a man he learned from me. There is no wrong application of love and I am grateful to God for the wonderful responsibility he entrusted me with.
Thanks for being their dad...and as the ol' saying goes you can't choose your relatives..But being a parent requires great patience by guiding the children through the good, the bad, the conflict. My daughter's significant other found that out.. For when he first met my three grand daughters, he tried to be their buddy instead of their dad.. but through time, the girls have recognized him as their dad..keep care..
DeleteTo Annonymous:
Delete"To anonymous, July 6:
I raised two wonderful boys as a stepfather. I always reinforced that their father was their father. At 32 my oldest boy tells me he knows he has a father, but I am his dad and that everything he knows about being a man he learned from me. There is no wrong application of love and I am grateful to God for the wonderful responsibility he entrusted me with.'
That's great for what you did, but you see my grandmother was abandoned by her father he took her siblings which were boys because his new wife DIDN'T WANT my grandmother at all because my step great grandmother ONLY wanted BOYS and NOT girls, so as far as I am concerned my grandmother was better off with a stranger who nurtured my grandmother. My grandmother had two boys one being a prominent man (my father) and the other working for a post office.
My point is as long as adults make it known that they care about the children and teaching them to rely on God or themselves that these kids can conquer anything, my grandmother didn't have the kind of help that abandoned, abused kids have today but she still made it through life without complications because of her adopted mother (Grandma Gossage)!
Absolutely agree. As the ol saying goes you can't choose your relatives. But that doesn't mean you can't be a person in ones life to share the true meaning of family.
DeleteI read this on a post on Facebook and shared it. I found this when looking it up because I wanted to make a copy. My mother, a teacher, was divorced in 1956. May God bless her that she NEVER said a mean word about my father. After I married and had my own children I formed my own unbiased opinions about him - worthless! I am so glad she let me come to my own conclusion. Looking back at all she endured, I am not sure I could have held my tongue. She was an awesome mother to me and my brother and I miss her daily.
ReplyDeleteYour mom was a very wise and patient lady. She realized that it is human nature for one come to their own conclusion about another...
DeleteMay you find strength in Your Higher Power
My daughter was 8 yrs. old. Her dad was to get them every other weekend. When the day came the 3 kids would pack up to go with him. They would set & wait & wait & he would never show or call. This went on time & time again & I would stick up for him & say he was probably working. (NOT) One day this happened & my daughter got in my face & said quit sticking up for dad & makeing excuses for him. He don't care about us. He was a dead beat & ran from paying child support. The kids went without alot & I had to work alot to try & keep a roof over ther head. Now the kids r grown so he is back in there lives being Mr. Nice Guy to them. He wasn't there thru all the hard times & all the problems so its easy for him to just hang out with them & throw money there way & bail them out of there problems. Whereas I am the bad person now as I don't have money to hand them & allow them to make unhealthy choices so I am an outcast. I don't want to alienate my kids from there dad but I want him to step up to the plate and tell his kids when there behavoir is not acceptable & NOT say "oh I don't want my kids mad at me, cause I wasn't there when they were younger. Thats selfish & not love. Thats hurting his kids as bad as he hurt them when he never paid child support & ran off to be a deadbeat.
ReplyDeleteFirst and foremost, I want to thank you for being there for your children. Just to add that your life journey is similar with the events in my life story.
DeleteDon't need to tell you good parenting is one where both parents are consistent with the main goal to guide their child so they too can become responsible adults.
I can only say that the only bad child has been the father, since being Mr. Nice Guy, to make up for his past behaviors isn't being responsible.
And yes now you are the outcast since it is human nature for the heroes to be the one that bails others out of their misdeeds, instead of making them responsible.
Will the father every realize this? Probably not. Will you every get over the feeling of being an outcast? Probably not. It may even take a significant harmful event of one of your children to get both of you on track.. Or perhaps the father may realize that he should have been a dad, instead of trying to be a buddy?
We can not change our past, but only use our past to make a better day.. But again, you should be proud of yourself for what you have done, for in your heart you did what was right. It requires great patience to be the underdog, knowing we can only suggest to others.. And realizing the only person we can change is ourselves. Keep care and never give up.
I raised my daughter single handedly for over a decade while dad ran around like a JA, yelling "I want to see my daughter, I want to see my daughter". (sounds good but he doesn't tell anyone about he really didn't want to and he another child nobody knew he abandoned)We lived in the same house forever. I owned a business so I was able to be gotten a hold of. He would call the house and never ask how his child was just me! The child would answer the phone and say, "he says it's my dad but I don't believe him. He wants to talk to you"! and hand me the phone. It was sad. He was committing crimes, doing drugs etc. while I raised a wonderful happy child. I never told her that dad was a criminal but I did say he had problems he tried to fix but he couldn't and I will help you find him when you are older if that's what you want. (before sayind "you slept with him", I'll have you know he's a phony christian and his family covered for him in hopes I would be the ONE that changed him! It was all con) Fast forward 10 years, he's doing time in state prison and wants to be together upon his release! NO. I send a response, NO, go away. You've stalked and harrassed us. I've had 3 orders of protection against you after finding you laying in wait in my yard, throwing me around, destroying my property, etc) The child is 10 and she can't go through the drama trauma and upset you bring. HOLY CRAP. He had the backing of a phony pastor and the prison clergy and best attorneys and came out of prison showing me what drama, trauma and upset really looked like. Our lives have been destroyed. I lost my business of 22 years having to fight for my daughters safety for over 3 years,.going to court ordered counseling for me, for the child and forced reunification with a nut and him! and he is out with a new order of protection on him from a grown man AND that didn't even help protect the child. DNA RULES! 9 felonies are ok in family court. Men with documented murder threats and suicide attempts and orders of protection with proven domestic violence don't matter. Nothing better than giving an abuser power and control! A mom with excellent credit, excellent child rearing for over a decade and honor and integrity didn't matter. JUST THE PRISON SYSTEMS FEDERALLY FUNDED FATHERS RIGHTS I PAID FOR WITH MY TAXES! I am so pissed and my daughter has been told he saved her from the abortion I wanted to have! He wasn't in her life because of me! He didn't sign the birth certificate because of me! It's all ME! AND MUCH MORE! Thanks for ruining two lives and many more that my research proves. Family courts and federal funds are paying the wrong people! They are lining the pockets of the greedy and leaving parents to battle while they make more money off of them! They create fighting and harm children saying "you did it"! Do you want to know what really happened the night I got pregnant? A HOLEY/HOLY Condom! Yes I was there and I stepped up. I am so sick of these "rights" everyone talks about but the really good people have NONE and neither do the INNOCENT! What's up with that? If anyone even starts with the Parent Alienation crap, I will lose it. He alienated himself and blamed me! Guess who sees right through it, the child! Her quote words were, "he doesn't care about anyone mama, he just cares about who's on his side and winning!" I said, "winning what?" She said, "Anything he can!" So there you have it. Thanks for sticking up for these creeps instead of the children.
ReplyDeleteAngry? Me? YEP! Get over it? I will but no thanks to a family court! It's a mess!
Angry yes, a normal feeling... ie neither right nor wrong.
DeleteFamily Court, yes a mess. Recently had a long discussion with a Civil Rights attorney and he agreed with my thoughts.. ie Do we really need family court with the current attitudes, level of proof, etc. that exist.
Actaully, I encourage anyone, everyone, if at all possible to make an attempt to stay out of family court.. Too many times it comes down to me, me, me and not the effort of raising a family, no matter where one or the other may be.
Good day! Do you happen to know how to make sure that your personal content is exclusive around the web and no other person is using it without your awareness?
ReplyDeleteNot really worried about "exclusive" since this particular post is from one who was at one time a Public Official.
DeleteMy hope is that someone who reads this will be inspired and recognize that each and everyone in a Family is a vital part to their particular family. Each and everyone are unique in what they can bring to their Family to make them a Strong and Caring Family as a Whole.
Thanks so much to this and my really dear old school friend through facebook sent me this link and i googled it I have court tomorrow and I can't wait to use this as a reference. Thanks for sharing!!
ReplyDeleteYour welcome.. And, if appropriate, it is a very good piece of advise.
Delete"Jason Geschwind" is associated with Construction 25, LLC and holds several roles such as President and Chief Executive Officer and is located in Saint Paul, MN
ReplyDeleteMy children are the product of a divorce in which "Dad" did everything he could to make the children choose between us; even telling me numerous times "the children like me better" and telling them lies about why we got divorced (I swore at the time we divorced I would never tell my children the real reason because children need to love and respect BOTH parents! I have stuck to that philosophy even when they have asked me - only telling them that the reasons for the divorce had nothing to do with them and both their father and I love them very much.) To this day, it makes me so sad to see my children feeling discomfort when their father and I are in the same place (such as my daughter's wedding). However, my children have thanked me for never putting them in that position and are secure in the knowledge that when they need a parent I am the one they seek out for support. I work in family law and I tell all clients DO NOT put your children in the middle and make sure to support a loving and supportive relationship with your child and the other parent - No matter if the other parent engages in such abusive behavior, stay above it. Your children will figure it out in the end and thank you for loving them enough to not put them through such a horrible ordeal.
ReplyDeleteYou are so right, a child shouldn't have to choose.. But then as we must realize, we can't change the beliefs of another, they have to do that.
ReplyDeleteThanks for being one that had the right beliefs.. And yes, as our children grow they will realize, who had the right beliefs in regards to family.
I really like this blog, It's always nice when you can not only be informed, but also get knowledge, from these type of blog, nice entry. Thanks
ReplyDeletemediation services & divorce mediators
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ReplyDelete